I'll be bringing photo gear for publicity/web shots.
I'm not very keen on pressing ahead for an April Arnhem game just because it's been mentioned and definately not happy about changing tack in the middle of March, not only will it look poor (we need to give an impression of confidence 
) but it will cock up the game (a botched Arnhem or a hasty rethought game).
I'm with Gadge - if it is to be an Arnhem game (and you don't want to open it up to a MG) then it's has to be Brit/German. Take a long view at it, get a body of Brits built up over the next six months and do it properly - even publish the dates now so that chaps won't think a Brit kit is only for one game.
Ah thats why i incided you and not 'ed' as i knew it wa syour kit, gliderider is the other guy, ed is 'panther' on here.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
We could do
Normandy - battle of the bocage
thats good game for April if we postpone
Gets everyone in but can stil feature a lot of US?
But.. site?
Phoenix woodland could do for that but we ideally need somewhere with hedges!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Arggghhhhh - wheres Yith when you need him ?
I'm all confused now, what game, where ?
As i say i'm still totally up with Arnhem if we all feel we can realisiticlaly get 20 uk players.
thats the crux
I've thought up some good scenrios and special rules.
German players no problem
Site will be terrific and need to show Rich.
Lets see how the 21st goes.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Hah! Bocage = Grange Farm.
Assuming we still go for PU in April then we could do something a bit more imaginative than following what for one reason or another has become a set piece battle.
So it could be commando raids on armament factories/V2 development labs. AA gun installation/distruption. Airfield establishment/destruction. Axis headquarters establishment/infiltration etc etc. That is to say, occupied industrial Holland, Belgium, Norway or some-such. And the mix of allies is immaterial plus we can use resistance and civvies as well. What was that story about an underground resistance guy who stuffed German's nuclear bomb research?
Not sure it would be a good idea to push Arnhem at PU in September as there is guarantee there will be a site there then so could flag that as LFU instead?
As i say i'm still totally up with Arnhem if we all feel we can realisiticlaly get 20 uk players.
thats the crux
I've thought up some good scenrios and special rules.
German players no problem
Site will be terrific and need to show Rich.Lets see how the 21st goes.
If you book it , they will come.....
& i thought the idea was ot keep some idea of hisotrical battles, I'm already breaking this with the fictional V1 raid
I wish I had your confidence - PU will cost
Ok... read all that... skimmed it a bit though as its late and I have a cold (still) grrr....
I still like the idea of Arnhem and it would be good to get 100% Brits... but we didn't manage 100% yanks for Bulge so I don't see the problem. I know Gadge that you feel personally about Arnhem and thats fine...
The problem we have is that pretty much in every combat we don't have a full mix of troops for the allies side. We always will end up wanting to have a mix of brit and us troops, but trying to shoehorn them into a single country's scenario. We should try and encourage people to do brit, but we can't force them to... perhaps we should pass on these concerns to the public forums and see what people have to say? How many will actually go out and get the brit uniform.
On to phoenix... a few things now concern me. After talking to Gadge this morning he has alerted me to a couple of H&S issues at the site. First of all there is aparently a substance on site that melts boots... it looks like water, but isn't. This is not on and should be completely cleaned up before we go. Secondly, last time he went gadge actually managed to fall through one of the floors in one of the buildings. It actually collapsed under him. I know that old factories are well... old... but I never heard of that happening at LFU... I was shocked. I am not saying that I will not allow us to run a game there, but at the end of the day this sort of thing will reflect directly on us and hence I think we should check it out VERY carefully.
Dave, I am VERY concerned about the
Good idea to float concept of corrupting pure Brits with US on the forum although we need to get our fingers out as time is moving on swiftly.
PU is unlike the old LFU that's true - one of the reasons why I think LFU was boring is that it's was so tidy and clinical and PU is gritty and interesting. All airsoft sites are inherently dangerous to some degree or another, of course. Dodgy bits are cordoned off where structures are unsafe (more every time thanks to vandals and pikeys ripping the place to bits). I wasn't aware of Gadge's accidents with disolving boots and crashing through floors but bear in mind that thousands of players have been there for getting on for two years, fully insured and under the governing body umbrella! Anyhoo, make your own mind up on the 21st rather than imagining the worst!
Site fee: I am concerned about the cost too (although when the time comes we can negotiate) but this is the reason I am concerened about changing plans half way through a campaign, should we not get enough Brits. Urban sites are expensive, woodland is cheap - very cheap. Don't forget that Phoenix isn't a bod turning up at the weekend with a van - they have premises at both sites and full time staff. Whether DG will bear the financial risk is worth exploring but he has to cover the day rent + marshalls + overheads before it's even worth his while - why would he take a financial risk when the number of players is completely out of his control and he could rent it out for a corporate game anyway? By the way, there is a site review coming up in the Feb issue of AI, glowing review by all accounts as was the woodland one!
It must have cost us
Ah Dave the stuff Yith refers to is the huge pool of oil in the shed on the right hand side of the embassy right entrance, my pro boots soles were worse for waier afgter treading in that. And inside the embassy, right f the side dooor is room wiht a small office in the back, i hid in their and fell through the floor.... luckily there was only five feet of space under me and not a cellar...
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
All fair points... but on the cost... It cost us nothing for F&O and will cost us nothing for Phoenix as well.
The way we need to do this is ask Grogan what the minimum number of players he will accept for the game is. Then if the week before (or whatever) the number has not been reached, the event is cancelled and deposits are returned.
There is no way in hell I am going to put our own cash on the line for this. Especially since we will not be making money out of it ourselves. I'd rather the event just not happen.
Okay... money issues asside, myself and Gadge are going to have a chat about this and may change to a totally different battle... something where the US and Brit troops can work together more...
We may leave Market Garden for later...
Right... since I now have a free sunday then I'm going to pop over to gadge's from about 1pm on sunday to have a chat about the possibilities of other battles...
If any others of you want to come along then please do...
I'm with you on the money Rich - I don't want to bear any financial risk either (unless I am making money from it - and that's what I do during the week LOL). Your proposal of minimum numbers is sound, just need to establish an acceptable cut-off time.
Gadge, ah I know where you mean about the oil pool in the bottom end of the barracade room - my magnams are resistant to anything bar a nuclear fallout but my jack boots are not! Simple enough to tape that off, if it is felt neccessary. Your hole in the embassy sound like a useful spider hole! (Glad you didn't hurt yourself - I'm a little disapointed you didn't find a cellar - how cool would that be finding a new and secret way to infiltrate the building.) We can make sure Phoenix do a site-wide risk assesment the day before (which they do before a game anyway). Biggest problem is broken glass IMHO - what with vandals and airsofters alike doing their worst.
Yeah i was going to sujest that we ask phoenix to bagup a load of the sand on site and cover theoil with it as well.
It was well scary when i fell as i went throgh the hole to my armpits and caught myself going any further, my feet were dangling in mid air and unbeknown to me the gorund was only six inches below *but* on the other side its a good 20 feet!
I was a little worried 
A site sweep and icebeg spotting is essential but the sie i feel is essenially as sound as any other urban site i've seen, playing on any industrial wasteland is alwasy going to have some inherent danger.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Yup, could ask G to get the JCB digger to dump some site soil on it then push it to one side (keep it in situ but safe, don't want to be moving it anywhere else for environmental reasons).
Completely off topic, but did you know that the site was built by Robert Stevenson of railway fame? He was banging the railway through (fab tunnel if you look over the fence) and was cutting though all sorts of iron and coal deposits on the way and so set up the pipe works there which was run by his son, subsequently changed hands over the years ending up in corporate hands before being bought out by the French who imediately closed the site and stripped it bare! Talk about asset stripping! Massive plans afoot for a huge housing development plus light industrial on the contaminated/poor bits, footbal pitches and other facilities at the top plus relandscaping the quarry. Still going through planning and I guess it's a Sec of State issue too - in this case I rather hope planning is lengthy for purely selfish reasons!
Meeting up in Notts at Gadges tommorrow sounds good , PM me an address and time and I'll come down .
Echo concerns over this hiring fee. We don't want to hire PU -we just want them to host the event . In dealings with IED their attitude has been turn up pay the green fees and the site is yours to do with as you want , same as Guccis .
Also concerned if the site is a bit of an H&S mare, now will definatley check this one out. BTW two of 1Sqdn were hurt badly at LFU, one dislocated knee down a pothole and one ripped a foot open , I suspect all urban sites are inherently more dangerous than woods.
Appreciate Gucci may have made a lot of money , but not for nothing , it was his site he had to hire , he had to pay his marshalls , and pay his insurance, plus he took the financial risk with us three months before the event when we didn't know if we'd get more than the four of us turn up . An TBH I'm not really concerned with how much we/site owners make as long as players are not ripped off and we have a fecking good WWII game . If I was an avaricious bastard I would look to run more Town Assault type event where players truly get ripped off.
Finally got a heads up from Kermit that he is close to argeeing a 24hr game in Sept /Oct , I told him we would support him in this in anyway we could ie forum space ,etc. Hope this meets with all's approval .
As I say, Urban site is massively more expensive to set up a game. Phoenix Woodland would be exactly the same as F&O/IED as there is no additional cost other than the temporary day staff.
Frankly, this H&S stuff is getting a bit out of hand - I have seen terrible injuries on a woodland site, heads and trees don't mix. If people are stupid airsoft is dangerous. I wouldn't allow my son to play at PU if I thought it was a death trap which is what you are making it sound like, despite two of you never having seen it!
Gucci didn't have any financial risk at all - there was no cost other than the day costs, he doesn't do corporates and wasn't using the site on the Sunday for anything else.
It looks like I may be going down to UA with Jay instead tomorrow, but even if I don't I won't be joining your game discussions tomorrow. You will get on much quicker with two or three. In fact I'm backing out of any more discussion on the next game - you hold where and when you want, it doesn't matter to me. If I can assist with props or PR or graphics just ask.
All good Guy...
I agree that all urban sites can be dangerous. But noxious chemicals on site is a no-no as is collapsing floors. I know people have been injured at LFU, but not from stuff like that... anyway... we'll get it sorted if need be. I still haven't seen the place!
The money thing... I always got the idea that Grogan was more in it for the money than the airsofting... I hope to be proved wrong. We'll have a chat next Sunday.
Guy... it'll be good to see you down at Gadge's... do you want to drop in at my place on the way down and save two cars going? We're planning on being there from 1pm.
My address is:
2, Breckland Road,
Walton,
Chesterfield,
S40 3LJ.
I'm heading off out now to do some shopping for Brendan... stair gates as he'll soon be walking and a new car seat as he's outgrown the one we have. I'll be back later.
